cosmic_ape
Aron Ortega
Plays: Guitar (25 years)
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cube, if you had written a song that sounded just like a hannah montana song, I'd be extremely disappointed ;)...
wow, those coldplay fans are going at it or what... fanboys get trolly so easily, me tells ya...
I feel like transcribing both melodies to see what the fuz is about... off the top of my head, they are TOO similar... the question is, how many bars of music are needed to be the same for plagiarism to happen? If it's four or so, JOE has a case for sure... more on this later...
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Sat Dec 6 '08 12:36:13 am
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Do The Stu
Austin Lewis, III
Costa Mesa, CA
United States
Plays: Bass (25 years)
4067 posts total | IP Logged
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I've read all 18 pages (as of now) of that Coldplay thread, and man oh man does it make me love T2J even more. We have a really cool and very respectful community here.
There's a new user, Morpheus, on the Coldplay board who posted something really interesting. Is that someone here, by any chance? He went to a show last month and did the Club Joe thing. Here's a bit from his post:
"I found it interesting when a fellow fan asked Satriani if he thought there were any resemblances between the songs. Satriani, who is a very humble and friendly guy, simply said 'My legal counsel has advised me not to discuss this'."
Joe's also had a link to the YouTube video comparing the tracks on his user page for a while now, so I guess this has been coming... This is sounding more and more like Satch and Coldplay were in fairly friendly talks that turned ugly once the Grammy nominations came in.
I've seen at least one post asking what will happen at the Grammys if Joe wins the lawsuit. I'd have to read the actual filing to be sure, but it depends what Joe is asking for. Most news articles seem to only mention money (damages and profits). So that'd just mean he gets a percentage of the money made on sales and any commercial/other uses. If he's asking for other things though and he wins everything he could end up with a songwriting credit for the song. That would be retroactive, which means he'd get royalties going all the way back to when the song was first released.
Onto the Grammy Awards...the Song Of The Year award goes to the songwriter(s), not the performer. I don't know the Grammy-specific rules, but if this song wins that specific Grammy and Joe goes on to win a co-writing credit in court, he could be awarded the Grammy retroactively.
That'd be a wild way for him to finally get an award, and to be honest I hope it doesn't end up playing out like that.
Anyway, I doubt we'll hear anything about this from Joe or Coldplay until after the lawsuit is resolved, as it's extremely rare for people to comment on current legal proceedings.
But in the meantime...if anyone has any other questions, ask away. I work at a newspaper and as a result I know copyright law inside and out, so I'll do what I can to clear things up around here.
...Austin...
Edited Sat Dec 6 '08 1:00 am
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Sat Dec 6 '08 12:56:28 am
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Do The Stu
Austin Lewis, III
Costa Mesa, CA
United States
Plays: Bass (25 years)
4067 posts total | IP Logged
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JS_JS - I posted something earlier Friday (click here) that included some of my personal thoughts.
Initially (when this first came up months ago) I thought it was a stretch, but I never actually heard the song until after I heard about the lawsuit. So now I realize the argument is much stronger than I originally thought.
However, I don't think Joe will win. It'll be a jury trial, and I think Coldplay is too popular and likely has a better (bigger) legal team. And we all know Joe is a very nice guy and in the end I just don't think he'll push the issue as much as he could.
This lawsuit was filed here in Los Angeles, so I'll do some digging around at work tomorrow and see if I can come up with some PDFs of the actual legal filing for us to look at. Maybe I'll send a message to our courts reporter and see if she can help me find stuff.
...Austin...
Edited Sat Dec 6 '08 1:18 am
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Sat Dec 6 '08 1:09:39 am
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cosmic_ape
Aron Ortega
Plays: Guitar (25 years)
1138 posts total | IP Logged
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Austin, JOE will be better off settling this stuff out of court, CP's wallet and legal payroll are way too big... Knowing JOE, these people (CP's legal dept.) have had to ditch him big time for him to decide to pursue legal actions... I see he waited until he was done with the US tour and the Chickenfoot sessions I think he said he'd do over Thanksgiving break... The timing is awesome because of the grammy noms, but it also feeds the conspiracy theorists about JOE being greedy and wanting to milk CP out of their money... oh well... I guess they wanted him to cancel everything and sue these guys two seconds after their album was released (???)
...I think the musical aspect can very much be justified as a copy, now the intention is always tricky... the melody is there, VLV is built on that theme and then it has many variations that take place in order to accommodate the lyrics... we have melody, rhythm and ( I haven't analyzed the chord voicings used on CP's song, the progression is the same) possibly harmony been way too similar...
people get lost because the songs have two different key centers and tempo... that does not matter... if you sing "happy birthday", it doesn't matter which key you're in or how fast you sing it, the melody will always maintain a fixed relationship between its notes... keys help singers bring a song to a spot that matches their register so they can sing it...
let's see what happens, if this was intentional, it needs to be fixed, period... if it was an accident, then it needs to be clarified...
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Sat Dec 6 '08 1:36:59 am
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Guitarman77897
Matt S
WI
United States
Plays: Guitar (21 years)
560 posts total | IP Logged
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If everyone watches the video Arty0861 posted where they match up the two songs, look in the related videos column, COLDPLAY V. ASHLEE SIMPSON: PLAGIARISM?
COLDPLAY STEALS VIDA LA BEBO FROM CAM BISLEY.
COLDPLAY STEALS CREAKY BOARDS SONG!
And the biggest of them all COLDPLAY COPIES SATRIANI'S IF I COULD FLY!
coldplay sucks, they can't write their own songs...
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Sat Dec 6 '08 4:12:27 am
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Tuesdayschild
Victoria
Northern Ireland
Plays: Vocals
149 posts total | IP Logged
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I feel very sad about the whole Joe Vs Coldplay thing but Joe, the best of luck. I think you've got a strong and genuine gripe but as others have said, CP are strong and the jury will likely support them. Pity it's come to this I can see how this must have been playing your mind when you were trying your best to concentrate on a world tour. You are genuine, down to earth, and humble, and a pleasure to follow as a fan.
Keep the faith...
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Sat Dec 6 '08 4:29:30 am
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wolf2
6365 posts total | IP Logged
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....what,s a going on? just listenschizophrenia is classified as a documented super advancement in the Untied states you see schizophrenia is herieteriy not from injury it,s from frontin of knowled it,s where like in school or after you have all this knowledged in your brain in many different part,s then it explodes and come to the surface then when treated with medicine it can be used greater then scientifics the medicine is for ,picture a scientisit haveing his own mediction man now in the united states they get dissabilty for schizophrenia as well except their they take care of their well being as well for example alot of big compnay from japan like mikuni carbuerators and japaneses electronic place make it em,s desighned for people that have schizophrenia advancements and capabilty now the goverment their actualy pays for the schizophrenia item like my carbuerators well if I was in the states I would just send the bill in too dissbailty canada is the only country that actualy doesnt take care of the schioprenia person lets say I played guitar I have schizophrenia Iam amzing at it had to have an ibanes pro model e; ;a joe satriani chrome boy the dissbilty would pay for it in the states once ever 7 years in most states anyways more coffee should be brewed now later wolf2.
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Sat Dec 6 '08 4:31:44 am
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Do The Stu
Austin Lewis, III
Costa Mesa, CA
United States
Plays: Bass (25 years)
4067 posts total | IP Logged
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So I came across something when I was searching for a previous post for JS_JS. Click here for a list of all posts on T2J that have "Coldplay" in them. Look at the second and third post on the first page (my question, and evbro's response).
I just did some digging around online and found the second interview we're talking about, from August 12, 2002:
http://www.vh1.com/artists/news/1456997/08122002/coldplay.jhtml
"VH1: You’re always hinting that maybe this might be the last Coldplay record.
Chris: We’ll wait and see. I sometimes think we’re just a one-hit wonder and that’s it for us. Other times I know that it’s not true. Being in Coldplay is what I live for, and I’d be gutted if people didn’t want us around. This is getting depressing! This is going to be on VH1’s 100 Saddest Stories: the day we gave up because no one liked us. Get Joe Satriani to comment on that!"
I don't remember what Joe's original comment was, but Coldplay's A Rush Of Blood To The Head came out that month so he probably had something to say about that. But I don't know if it was on Rockline or in print or what...does anyone else remember this?
I've heard Joe comment on other music in interviews over the years, and he's always constructive about it. But this interview I found shows something he said obviously rubbed Coldplay the wrong way.
Does this sound like a motive to anyone else?
...Austin...
Edited Sat Dec 6 '08 4:42 am
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Sat Dec 6 '08 4:39:58 am
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dantheman
OH
USA
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Do_the_Stu, what did Chris mean by that comment? Was he trying to say that Joe was a forgotten rock star? Joe has had a long and successful career, is still drawing decent crowds, and still has a large fan base that buys his recordings without even hearing a note. Maybe Chris could do a little research next time!
I'm sad about this Coldplay thing. I wonder how hard this is on Joe. On one hand, we hear in his music that he's very obviously a man with deep emotions. But, perhaps he has a "strictly business" side that he is able to compartmentalize, although that's difficult to imagine.
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Sat Dec 6 '08 5:16:02 am
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wolf2
6365 posts total | IP Logged
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This is the absolute truth Joe , I should realy move .Well sometime,s I thing about it.Why? The wolve,s are bad here no shit Timber Wolve,s some are about maybe even over 8 feet tall on their back leg,s real foucking timberwolve,s man no shit their a protected endangered species hey man I am plagued with them here everyone knows that like my girlfriends at night when thir at my door their like holy shit theirs like 8 wolves out here some of my girlfriends pet them like dogs Alana was here one night she went to leave one morning tried to go outside like a 4,foot 10 inch from paw to shoulder on the ground front paw timber wolf was standing out their when I was haveing my lapse of schizophrenia before I got diagnosed they were coming up on my deck looking in my windows no shit likking their mouths and showing me their teeth this morning at about 6.10 am one was out side on the bottom part of my deck and howled the howl sounded like my voice from from 5 years ago with schizophrenia un treated different wolf then just aminute ago I could feel teeth from them in my brain from the one that was on my deck before and teeth from the one that howled today it,s painful their teething my brain buddy I have so many wolves like actual humongus focuking huge Timber,s wolf,s you wouldnt believe it bangerous hey man oh yeah fouck it,s scarry! later wolf2 more coffee for teeh from wolf brain later wolf2.
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Sat Dec 6 '08 5:51:04 am
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Bmadd4
Mike Brownrigg
Canada
Plays: Guitar (31 years)
53 posts total | IP Logged
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That CP song was a complete rip off of If I Could Fly, the tune is just way to close to Satchs, thats copyright infringement for sure, intentional or not!
Imagine the Coldplay version as a midi ringtone on a cellphone without vocals and it would sound identical to If I Could Fly!
I have a feeling the more successful bands and Coldplay is one of them with their tune topping charts and downloads, steal from the smaller musicians more than we know-I think that is what this is about, its not fair that musicians trying to start in the business get ripped off, if I wrote a song and sent it off to a record label and a year later hear a major band making profit off a simlar sounding song, I might get suspicious, especiallly if the song went to #1 on the charts while I was still trying to get my foot in the door, way to go Strange Beautiful Music, Satch etc........
Its important to stand up for your rights, right on!
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Sat Dec 6 '08 5:52:34 am
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civgeek
Matt Dorado
Portland, OR
USA
Plays: Guitar (53 years)
1318 posts total | IP Logged
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Lurking lurking...
What up peeps just thought I'd drop a note this time. Take care all and have a great holiday season.
Civ
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Sat Dec 6 '08 6:32:18 am
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BadNomad
Jerry C.
PRACTICE MORE, TODAY
USA
Plays: Guitar (45 years)
283 posts total | IP Logged
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Hello all...
I'm impressed by our board's ability to keep it "above board"
Peace People
"POOF!"
gone..............
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Sat Dec 6 '08 7:09:28 am
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novjul
175 posts total | IP Logged
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When I first saw iHaveSpaceLikeNASA's YouTube vid, I spent many hours reading through ALL the comments.
The same arguments/comments were posted over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over and over and over over and over
you get the picture
The one helpful post I read was from a fan who asked Joe about this at a Meet & Greet, and Joe said something to the effect our lawyers are talking to their lawyers. This one comment was lost in a sea of comments unconnected to all the other comments, because only a crazy person like myself would take the time to actually read what everyone else had already said.
The moral of that lost afternoon is this: NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT because bystanders can't tell the difference!
Joe, I support you ALL THE WAY NO MATTER WHAT.
...peace,everyone...
Edited Sat Dec 6 '08 1:28 pm
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Sat Dec 6 '08 7:33:18 am
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novjul
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here is what I set out to write about today, before the lawsuit controversy erupted:
I have been known to fall into a YouTube hole watching joe vid's (queuing them up one after another for as long my patience holds out, which can be hours on end) whether it be guitar tips, live vid's, interviews etc.
This morning it was ANDALUSIA and TIME MACHINE 2008 ~ watching the live performances helped me re-live (in an extremely reduced fashion) my own experience of hearing these songs in concert on the recent tour
Joe, I cannot thank you enough for Andalusia ~ such an incredible joy, not only to experience the studio recording, but to witness you deliver the song in live performance ~ and hearing Time Machine live (with that beautiful dreamy intro ~ahhhhhh~) this experience was beyond words ~ these two songs surpassed all expectations and have brought my fan feeling to a new level ~ I cannot help but stand in awe, suffused with ecstasy
~ thank you, Joe ~ thank-you Forever ~
...your humble fan...
~Faye
Edited Sat Dec 6 '08 8:08 am
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Sat Dec 6 '08 8:05:40 am
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cheese101
3965 posts total | IP Logged
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Excellent advice...and I've always wanted to be a dog, or a cat :)
As someone recently reminded me, only 19 days to Christmas...keeping it simple this year, low stress and low hassle that way. I hope everyone has a nice holiday season.
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Sat Dec 6 '08 8:07:46 am
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