rCeUdTuHx
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Two years ago, I was in the Air Force, on duty, standing with a bunch of Secret Service agents while we watched a bunch of stupid teenagers across the street from where the Vice Pres. was speaking drag the Flag on the sidewalk, spit on it, rip it- pretty much everything but burn it. There wasn't a damn thing the law could do. Finally an old Vietnam-era Vet went up and punched the kid holding the Flag in the face and continued to wail on him until the cops arrested one of them. Guess who went to jail?
The one who committed an actual crime?
As disgusting as we may find desecration of the flag, or any other inanimate object or symbol, it does not violate the personal or property rights of another (save in cases where the item was stolen, or folks are trespassing to do it). There is no right from being offended.
As with any other form of acting out, ignoring it is often the best defense, as the perpetrators will soon tire of being shunned/ignored and might start to think and get a clue from life. While this vet may have thought he was doing his country another service by serving up an ass whoopin' for this kid (I suppose it's possible), it seems far more likely that he reinforced the kid's hatred.
$.02
Edited Thu Jul 7 '11 4:56 am
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Thu Jul 7 '11 4:55:42 am
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rCeUdTuHx
84 posts total | IP Logged
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Newton's third may apply to the physical side of the event, but not the legal; the initiator of force is generally to blame in the eyes of the court. This is as it should be.
Some creative prosecutors could make use of taunting laws (which vary by jurisdiction) if they could provide evidence that the kid(s) knew that their actions might raise the ire of individuals present; I do, however, think that taunting laws generally require a specific target of the taunt.
Edited Thu Jul 7 '11 5:36 am
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Thu Jul 7 '11 5:35:29 am
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Zinc Master
Zinc Master
Crown Point, IN
USA
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BigBunny
If she is let out - I read the jail will release her the "back way" so that the media cannot get a hold of her.
Wonder where she will go?
Off to the bars to party?
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Thu Jul 7 '11 6:32:06 am
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rCeUdTuHx
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That would depend on whether the fart were derived from White Castles, refried beans, or some other source.
Also, was the fart lit and, if so, was said lighting of the fart intentional?
I'll have to review your linked video at a later time to see if the answers to these important questions can be determined.
Edit: heh...watched the video...the flag was likely brought in by two European swallows working in tandem.
Edited Thu Jul 7 '11 7:46 am
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Thu Jul 7 '11 7:45:38 am
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Two Shay
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Frankly, I believe that peeps who don't like the country they're in to the extent that they piss on / burn the flag should just feck off to Saudi Arabia and do it to their flag. They'd soon learn that it's not such a good idea and then have a long long time to regret doing so.
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Thu Jul 7 '11 11:46:29 am
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turbo236
Ian Wise
Nampa, ID
USA
Plays: Guitar (19 years)
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Gauging by the reaction of everyone there who was not destroying an American Flag, I'd say the Vet was doing a good deed. Hopefully the judge saw it that way too.
I agree with you Two Shay; if you don't like the country you're in, then get the hell out!
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Thu Jul 7 '11 12:41:56 pm
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rCeUdTuHx
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While I would agree that if one hates America (or any country, for that matter) he should endeavor to leave it.
Even so, frankly, if one thinks it's acceptable for someone to get away with battery over the destruction of an inanimate object then that person may not understand America well enough to live here.
Empathizing with motive is one thing, but such thuggish behavior should never be given a pass, regardless of motive.
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Thu Jul 7 '11 12:54:46 pm
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Blue_Moon
Alan McKenna
Dublin
Ireland
Plays: Guitar (23 years)
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Pip, nope! didn't forget, just the solo is a ball breaker! and I've no cam, last one's been on the fritz since Jan :( ...Should have a new one shortly and I'll upload some vids... "Up in the sky, revelation and the memories" or something!
Almost finished this web design course too so I'll have more free time (Y)
Going to Spain in 2 weeks, looking forward to it :)
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Thu Jul 7 '11 2:57:42 pm
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hybes
Mark Hybers
Plays: Guitar (18 years)
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thuggish behavior is exactly how we were able to achieve the right to have that American flag. And although it's not against the law to desecrate the flag, it sure as heck should be.
It's a shame when a preacher burns a copy of the Koran and so many people in this country are just appauled at such a disgraceful act, but when someone here burns and pisses on the American flag people in this country just chalk it up to someone expressing their rights. Shows you the state of mind of so many people in this country.
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Thu Jul 7 '11 8:28:45 pm
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oxley11
Hackensack, NJ
United States
Plays: Guitar (15 years)
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Desecrating the flag would be considered treason. And you can be sent to jail for that. It's not just an emotional factor, there is legality to it. Yes we have freedom, but if you want to use that freedom to go against the country that gave it to you, not only do you not deserve it, but there's no reason you should be in this country in the first place.
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Fri Jul 8 '11 12:59:41 am
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Two Shay
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Hybes, I think you will find that it is only a minority that chalk it up to people expressing their rights. Trouble is, when they do so, folk like you get outraged all over again (understandably so).
Oxley, I believe that desecrating the flag should be made a crime. I also wonder if desecrating the flag could be considered a hate crime. It fits the bill for me but i'm no lawyer.
This whole thing could be argued about all day, the United States is a democratic republic built on freedom of dissent, but just how far can one take such dissent.
I believe immigrants to the US (according to the CFR) must recite and sign an oath of allegiance, does desecrating the flag go against the oath? I think the CFR is classed as administrative law.
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Fri Jul 8 '11 2:51:15 am
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ibanezebra
Richard Barnes
England
Plays: Guitar (20 years)
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I cant see what the big fuss is about that flag business. I'm not american, so i probably think differently than americans, but if that happened in England, no one would give a toss.
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Fri Jul 8 '11 2:53:56 am
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Two Shay
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Don't know what part of England you are from but it must be different to me. Not so long back it made the national news when some disaffected sub-continental cousins (Asians if you like) demonstrated and burned the Union Jack (and the US flag). We may not have the pledge of allegiance but the vast majority of people in the UK are appalled by such behaviour, maybe not descending into violence but appalled nontheless.
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Fri Jul 8 '11 3:27:52 am
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Guitarman77897
Matt S
WI
United States
Plays: Guitar (21 years)
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Being 19 doesn't feel any different than 18, except now I got a Big Bad Wah so actually it feels amazing!
Now I only need $330 for a Time Machine and Ice9. Maybe for Christmas.
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Fri Jul 8 '11 6:39:29 am
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Bigfishy1
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JOe coming back to Florida anytimne soon? , My 45th is in September and to catch you're show for my B-day would be the best present ever!, I've been to all your Orlando H.O.B shows and the last one I followed you down to West palm after just to see it again.
God BLess!
Philip
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Fri Jul 8 '11 7:11:11 am
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Do The Stu
Austin Lewis, III
Costa Mesa, CA
United States
Plays: Bass (25 years)
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Hi everyone...
It turns out my dad can't make it down here for the Cliff Show II, so I have an extra ticket to sell. I paid about $90 ($75 plus TM/LN fees)...I know that's a lot of money, but it's for a good cause.
I was at the first Cliff Show five years ago; believe me when I say it will be well worth it...
Anyone interested? Email me...
...Austin...
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Fri Jul 8 '11 7:12:38 am
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