Michelle- Not gonna let any one sway my vote with unimportant issues..just the important ones. I have done that before, unfortunately

I was attending a church here in town regularly..several years back ... during election year the pastor preached regularly on the "christian" candidate. (his opinion) and how as Christians it was our moral duty to vote for this candidate because " God had his hand on his shoulder to guide him...

ahem and so on

anyway I wanted to be a "good christian"

and that is the story of how I voted for dubya ....... (the first time he ran)

hey michelle, it's me again.

'WTF is wrong with these people?? Then to go spreading that bullshit in other countries? Really? People like Mustaine and Nugent and all those other America (loving??) hating idiots need to pack their bags and gtfo and go live in the wild lands somewhere in Bumfuck where they can be mayor Fuckall of their own make believe town.

"Hello me, meet the real me" - No thanks Dave, I've seen enough.

Absolutely mind blowing. I don't think any president in the history of the US has been this blatantly disrespected.'

really? i guess you weren't around the last 10 years or so when literally every democrat and celebrity disrespected America and the president in regards to the war against islamic terror and everything else.

remember the 911 conspiracy? bush had explosives planted in the building when it was built?

I usually don't talk politics, especially online, but I don't get why anyone would vote for Romney. Obama has done so much damage control after the mess Bush made, then managed to get some work done.

Romney just wants to be president so he can create laws that make HIS life easier and other RICH, WHITE, MEN. while middle class suffers for it? why on earth would I vote for him?

'So all the people who voted for McCain in that election because he was white (soooo white) is not the same in what way? '

'A president has the responsibility and duty to take care of the many, not the few.'

i would have to disagree with that statement. the duty of the president is to execute and enforce the laws written by us, the people.

it is every persons own responsibility to take care of themselves. it is the price of freedom. when someone else pays the bills they have a say in how you live your life. think what your parents said to you 'as long as you live under this roof, you will live by our rules'. it is no different with the gov't and the people.

woodman, I disagree with you on all points, and strongly on most points. IMO, it's the "every man for himself" way of thinking that is the problem. We could go back and forth till the end of time. I will never agree with your way of thinking, and I believe you will never agree with mine. Fair enough. I don't do conspiracy theories. The government has lied to it's people since the beginning of time. The church has lied to us since the beginning of time. It's what they do. It's the citizens of the US that spread fear and hate through lies and bullshit that "gets my panties in a bunch." If that doesn't pisss a person off, then there's something wrong with that person.

Peace, that happens in churches worldwide. Brainwashing and manipulation "for the good of God." Shame on them.

Chunky, yet satisfying

Thanks for the comic relief Al. lol

I've been waiting for Jack Thammarat to do another Joe cover!

A message from oblivion :

The free on line album Birds Believes (T2JSinfonie) gets a new cover.

You can check it directly on my website

I ring a bell to remind that this contemporaneous sinfonie for guitar is in big part a daughter of this forum. You can download it onto Jamendo.

My first youtube videoELEKTRA : Sigh of the music's cunt

An other clip : Omen Spiritual at Crossroad

This one is all about Blues.

Well, i think that's enough pollution.

In his best Diamond Dave voice...I hope you missed me...I'm baaack

Wow...a sh*tstorm about Obama vs. Romney on Talk2Joe...I guess this place is still part of the real world ;?)

Seriously though, I think they're both turds; still debating whether I'll hold my nose and vote for one of them (hint: it won't be Obama) or someone who hasn't a chance in hell but more closely (if not perfectly) represents my ideals.

If you have a problem with Obama because he's black, then you're a racist. If you think that Obama is disrespected or feared by some merely because he is black, you probably don't want to hear the substantive arguments against his policies, and may simply not understand economics through other than the failed lens of Keynesianism.

If you have a problem with Romney because he's rich, then, at best, you're jealous, and not much better. If you think Romney is being panned by some merely because he is a rich white guy, you too are wearing blinders, and wish to ignore the fact that this guy has had more positions on important issues than adult film stars have in a career.

If you're not in love with either of them, but merely think of them to be the lesser of two evils, consider making your vote count by voting Libertarian, Green, or even Socialist Workers party, if that's your thing.

You might also consider not voting, as it's biggest real function is to legitimize the current system.

"it's the "every man for himself" way of thinking that is the problem"

Quite. A society cannot function this way. I can't understand why some people still think it can.

IMO, USA is lucky to have Obama methodically tidying up the ruin left by the Bush regime, and is lucky to have a presidential figure who can think broadly, for the normal people, rather than aspiring to make improvements for the rich.

I don't believe in "every man for himself". I also don't believe government to be the appropriate helping hand when the time comes. It is the entity most ill-informed and ill-suited for the task.

Look at NOLA during Katrina...who showed up to help people first after the fact? Private & not for profit organizations...the Red Cross, even the EVIL Walmart. What happened when government entities showed up? People were given all the help they didn't need, and more, their rights were run roughshod over (forceful evacuations and or gun confiscations ring a bell?) and thousands of temporary housing trailers sat empty for months, turning toxic with mold, because the bureaucracy couldn't be waded through quickly enough for anyone to move in.

Also, much like Bush didn't make the financial mess in this country, Obama isn't fixing it. Trust me, I'm no Bush fanboy, but to think that the real estate and other bubbles happened on his watch and on his watch only is to be ignorant of over 100 years of U.S. economic history.

Bailouts don't work...GM and all the banks that were bailed out should have been left to fail...this is the only way for the malinvestment to be cleared...instead, both Bush and Obama (and the relevant congresses, Republican and Democrat alike) chose to put the little guy on the hook for the connected rich guys in the banks and the auto manufacturers.

The malinvestment of which I speak was spawned, for the most part, by the reckless interest rate policies of the Federal Reserve.

Interest rates are prices for borrowing. As with all prices, if they are not market driven, those participating in the market don't have the appropriate information necessary to make rational decisions regarding the allocation of their capital.

This is why price controls of any sort at any time are always (yes, I said always) horribly destructive. Looking back to my earlier example of Katrina, one might be tempted to ask "What about after a hurricane? What about water? Surely you would advocate price controls for such a situation...". Quite the contrary...imagine price controls on water after a Hurricane...a politician, in his infinite wisdom (and infinite ignorance of economics) declares that water prices will not be allowed to rise, and that anyone found to be "gouging". What happens next? Hoarding and shortages. Price ceilings always lead to shrotages, and price floors (think minimum wage - a control on the price of labor) always lead to gluts.

Simon, you mentioned that Obama was methodically unraveling the mess left by Bush. I ask with all seriousness, from your perspective, what were the issues, and what has Obama done to fix them?

Again, while I, like Peace_Lily, voted for Bush in 2000, I haven't voted for a Republican for president since. In full disclosure, I have never voted for a Democrat. That said, I am always amazed when anyone highly lauds the policies or outcomes of either party. Both stand for increased control, albeit over different targeted areas, of one's life.

Social safety nets, over time, trend toward social hammocks for the "cash" payout systems, and tend to lead to shortages and reduction in quality where government intervenes in service delivery (think healthcare...it's coming).

Suggested Reading: The Road to Serfdom - F.A. Hayek

As for the money Obama is spending to fix the mess here in the US - how much did Bush spent to make it? The money spent on the war alone, and the aftermath of what becomes of all the broken soldiers coming home. Their short term and long term healthcare. Their mental healthcare, which will take longer to heal than their physical wounds, not to mention the physical and monetary toll it takes on their families. Add all that mess to the infrastructure of the US. The roads, bridges, and all the sewer, gas, water and everything else that's rotting under the ground and needs repairs. Water pipes are breaking and causing giant sinkholes all over the place over here in the tri-state area. You can't 'rebuild" America without spending money.

cuth, " If you think that Obama is disrespected or feared by some merely because he is black, you probably don't want to hear the substantive arguments against his policies, and may simply not understand economics through other than the failed lens of Keynesianism. "

If you're in denial that his being black hasn't swayed people's way of thinking about him, well, I don't have enough hours to debate that one. I've heard the most ignorant, unbelievable, and just mind blowing statements from people who have fed and spread the lies and fear tactics spread by hate towards the man. That doesn't necessarily make them racist (some truly are), but it does make them ignorant. Do you remember the blatant disrespect by some of the republican members of congress, and the S.C. congressmen who called him a liar during one of his speeches? They've even stooped so low in their hate rally as to compare him to Hitler and Marx. HITLER! Are you f'n kidding me?

I don't ever remember in my 48 years on this planet (who knows where I was before that?) such vile hatred and disrespect for any president, or hearing anything like this for any before my time. What has this president done that is so outrageously different than any other Democratic president before him that would cause so much disrespect and hate??

As for people not liking Romney because he's rich, hell, Obama is rich if you think about it. How far does a person who isn't rich get when running for president? Not to damn far. It's not that he's rich, it's that he's completely out of touch with how most American live on a daily basis. He's out of touch with pretty much everything except stepping on people to better the top half, or "thinning the herd". He's grown up in a very privileged lifestyle. Yay for him. It's not that's he's rich, it's his CHARACTER that is the problem.

Thanks for the birthday wishes :-)

962, if I had a thumbs up icon, I'd use it now. lol!

As for NOLA - that was, once again, one of the biggest messes Bush created for the US with his lack of action, total disrespect for the people of Katrina, and the unbelievable way he tried to "make up for it" by "helping". That was the gov't under the watch of Bush and his people. Since Obama has been in, has there been any natural disasters that have been handled anywhere near that badly? Any? Not playing tit for tat, but there was a LOT of bad shit that went down in the 8 years on Bush's watch that the next prez had to deal with - no matter who they were.

Anyways, happy Monday y'all!